Praise Whistlers Abroad
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Song 3 - Sweet Hour of Prayer
http://praisewhistlers.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=755
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Author:  Blackhawk [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:33 pm ]
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Wonderful, Brassy!

Author:  Ren-Tin-10 [ Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:20 am ]
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Thanks, 'Hawk! :mrgreen:

Author:  ConnieS [ Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:47 am ]
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Jim Wright wrote:
Sounds very nice ... I had thought of using the Mount. Dulc and found a site that actually plays the whole song. I sure do like the sound of them... will probably buy the CD.

http://www.tindlemusic.com/MDCDshop.htm

Oh .. I am practicing ... but are you sure that helps??? :-k :D


Oh, that link is so-o-o nice!! In the first notes I thought, "Oh, I could do that." Then I quickly changed my mind.

BTW, YEAH!! Practice helps!! What kind of teacher would I be if I didn't say that!?

Now I'm going to go listen to your Sweet Hour of Prayer. :mrgreen:
Don't worry, I won't listen as a music teacher, just as a fan.

Author:  KATaylor5 [ Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Song 3 - Sweet Hour of Prayer

shadoes wrote:


What version of Finale do you have? I just upgraded to 2007, I had 2003.

For pickup notes...ok let's see if I remember, I'm at work right now so going from memory.

I think what you have to do is use the time signature tool and actually make the first measure have the # of beats according to the pick up notes. So for example, if you have 1 quarter note pickup or 2 eighth note pickups, make the time sig 1/4.

BUT while you're in your time sig dialog box look under options or whatever, there is an option to "Use different time signature for display". So if the piece is actually in 4/4 with a quarter note pick up, you can still have 4/4 displayed on the paper at the beginning. Does that make sense?

so, what will show will be 4/4 but the first measure will actually be programmed behind the scenes to be 1/4.

hope that helps

Author:  ConnieS [ Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:51 am ]
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Nicely done, Jim!!!! =D> =D> =D> =D>

I'd say practice does help. Much as I've enjoyed all your work, I'd say your playing is growing more sure and solid.

Gotta love that rain. It gives emotion to the song.

Author:  ConnieS [ Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:01 am ]
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Hey, Brassblower!! Nice work. I wasn't expecting the harmony on the second verse. It was a nice surprise.

I also liked that autoaccompany. What kind of keyboard are you using to get that?

Love that Clarke original.

Side note: I've been rediscovering the Clarke original. I have an old D I was going to give away, but then the wood fipple came loose and so I just kept it. Couldn't throw it away. Then a few weeks ago I looked at it, and thought......Next thing I know I'm pounding a nail into the side of the thing to stabilize the fipple. Now it's a nice whistle again (in spite of the nail sticking out of the side). Former student Josh was playing my Susato A in session (key of D), and I picked up the Clarke original to harmonize, and the combination was surprisingly and hauntingly perfect.

Folks.....never throw away a Clarke original. Bad mistake.

Author:  Ren-Tin-10 [ Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:15 pm ]
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ConnieS wrote:
Hey, Brassblower!! Nice work. I wasn't expecting the harmony on the second verse. It was a nice surprise


Thanks, Connie! :mrgreen:

ConnieS wrote:
I also liked that autoaccompany. What kind of keyboard are you using to get that?


It is a Yamaha. I used "XmasWaltz" for the Style setting. I got the stereo effect on all tracks by recording two mono tracks at the same time, then panning one left and one right, and applying a few milliseconds of delay to one of them.

ConnieS wrote:
Love that Clarke original.

Folks.....never throw away a Clarke original. Bad mistake.


I would have to agree there. The upside is that they tend to be in tune in both octaves, and record well if you attach the mic to the bottom of the whistle (like I did on this track, and I did the same with the Dixon). The downside is that they take a lot of air! :shock:

Author:  KittyR [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:56 pm ]
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Since shadoes' computer is out of commission for a few more days, I am helping out with posting clips.

Here are two more recordings; one from khl and another from Blackhawk.

khl
http://praisewhistlers.org/exchange/son ... ur_KHL.mp3

Blackhawk
http://praisewhistlers.org/exchange/son ... ckhawk.mp3

Keith will have to tell us the details of his recording, but Blackhawk writes:
"I was playing a stock Generation Bb blue top, with only the sticky tack tweak. It's a blue collar whistle for sure. It cost me $6.85 plus shipping."

Author:  khl [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:20 am ]
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I played this one on a Shaw Bb. It takes lots of air and I can't imagine what a Shaw Low D must need.

I've liked the various recordings on this one. Always a pleasure to hear what folks do.

Author:  ConnieS [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:12 am ]
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Keith, I like the meditative quality of your piece. The understated ornamentation supports it nicely. Too much and it would have lost your meditativeness. Nice feel for that. And you play with assurance.

That Shaw is an interesting instrument. Breathy on the low notes, and a little purer in the upper end of this song. Were you pausing for reflection between phrases, or pausing to get a big Shaw breath? :D Either way, it added to the reflectiveness of the piece.

Author:  ConnieS [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:22 am ]
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Wow! Nice tweaking job. You almost make me want a Gen. Almost.

As in your last piece, you do a nice job of respecting the tone of your whistle as well as the general tone of the song. Nice clarity. And, by the way, whatever microphone you're using, it has great clarity, too. A few clicks I was curious about, but the tone of the microphone was very crisp and clear.

Did you slow down for the second verse on purpose? I liked the fact that you did that.

If I could offer any suggestions at all, it might be to try tapping your foot when you play. I struggle with rhythms, and that helps me regulate them. In irregular beat songs, you want to play freely without being hindered by a foot tapping, but a song like this seems to ask for a regular beat.
Course, that's just me, and everybody's interpretation is, of course, different. Really, I liked your song and the confidence with which you play.

Oh, the way you bounced the high part was unique and fun to listen to. High marks there.

Author:  Blackhawk [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:28 am ]
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ConnieS wrote:
Wow! Nice tweaking job. You almost make me want a Gen. Almost.

As in your last piece, you do a nice job of respecting the tone of your whistle as well as the general tone of the song. Nice clarity. And, by the way, whatever microphone you're using, it has great clarity, too. A few clicks I was curious about, but the tone of the microphone was very crisp and clear.
The clicks are something I just can't seem to get rid of. I don't have that figured out yet.

Quote:
Did you slow down for the second verse on purpose? I liked the fact that you did that.
I think I was nervous and played too fast the first time, so when I made it through that time, I got some confidence and settled down the second time and played it like I would if playing for myself here at home. I didn't mean to play it different both times, I just don't play very well.

Quote:
If I could offer any suggestions at all, it might be to try tapping your foot when you play. I struggle with rhythms, and that helps me regulate them. In irregular beat songs, you want to play freely without being hindered by a foot tapping, but a song like this seems to ask for a regular beat.
You're right, my timing is terrible. And tapping the foot myself has never helped simply because I just tap slower or faster as I play. If someone else sets the beat, I do fine. I think I'll have to work more with a metronome.

Quote:
Oh, the way you bounced the high part was unique and fun to listen to. High marks there.
Thank you, Connie. That was just me finally getting over the nervousness a little. Thanks for your advice. I'll get better in years to come. :)

Author:  shadoes [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:49 am ]
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if I am having timing trouble I will turn off the recording and start the metronome. then once I get close to what I want I will turn off the click on the metronome and just leave the light blinking on beat. That helps me get my foot tap into the right tempo :)

Author:  khl [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:52 am ]
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ConnieS wrote:

That Shaw is an interesting instrument. Breathy on the low notes, and a little purer in the upper end of this song. Were you pausing for reflection between phrases, or pausing to get a big Shaw breath? :D Either way, it added to the reflectiveness of the piece.


Thanks for your comments.

I actually tried to play this reminiscent of the way it might be sung (without accopaniment) by regular folks--perhaps in meeting, perhaps alone at home. The breathing (and actually the choice of the Shaw) tries to reflect that, though some of it simply shows up when I needed a breath.

Author:  KittyR [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:51 pm ]
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Blackhawk wrote:
You're right, my timing is terrible. And tapping the foot myself has never helped simply because I just tap slower or faster as I play. If someone else sets the beat, I do fine. I think I'll have to work more with a metronome.


Dude! Adaucity has a 'click track' feature.

Open a new project, click Generate -> Click Track, and then select your tempo and speed.

When you record, listen to the click track in your headphones while you play. (If you listen to it over the speakers then it will also be recorded onto your whistle track.)

When you're all done recording, just delete the click track. :)

Kitty

Author:  Blackhawk [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:30 pm ]
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KittyR wrote:
Blackhawk wrote:
You're right, my timing is terrible. And tapping the foot myself has never helped simply because I just tap slower or faster as I play. If someone else sets the beat, I do fine. I think I'll have to work more with a metronome.


Dude! Adaucity has a 'click track' feature.

Open a new project, click Generate -> Click Track, and then select your tempo and speed.

When you record, listen to the click track in your headphones while you play. (If you listen to it over the speakers then it will also be recorded onto your whistle track.)

When you're all done recording, just delete the click track. :)

Kitty
I tried that. What you heard was the result of me using that feature. You should have heard it before. :roll:

Author:  ConnieS [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:08 pm ]
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Thanks, Kitty! I'll have to try that feature. I've been looking for something like that.

Um...Blackhawk, you really are doing well. You have a remarkable command of tonal quality. And that's not just blathering teacherese. Let me tell ya...

I have these two students. One is a gifted eight-year-old who took to his pennywhistle last year, mastered the basics, and moved quickly on to ornaments. The other is a gifted ten-year-old who took to her pennywhistle and struggled with the basics. But I enjoyed her playing more. And I'll tell you why. She would not move on until she made her pennywhistle sing. She played with feeling. She explored each note until she pulled the best sound you could possibly pull out of a three dollar Meg. And although the boy was technically better, I'd listen to the soulful student over the clever student at the end of the day. My classroom is just around the corner from the main entrance to the building. At the end of the day, it became quite common for the kids to sit on the steps indoors waiting for their parents and play their whistles. The one I wanted to hear was the girl. She held back on the ornaments and the timing was not quite there yet, but after a frazzled day of teaching, I would sit back and enjoy the best a Meg had to offer.

So there. Keep playing with the tonal quality you've shown from the first song you put up. The rest you're already getting better at.

'Course, there are those folks who have great tonal quality AND timing and ornaments and all the rest. Kitty, if you ever put out a CD, I'll stand in line to get a copy. I have a former student who got pretty nearly everything right. He's off to high school now, and he's a better whistler than I am!

Author:  Blackhawk [ Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:23 pm ]
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shadoes wrote:
if I am having timing trouble I will turn off the recording and start the metronome. then once I get close to what I want I will turn off the click on the metronome and just leave the light blinking on beat. That helps me get my foot tap into the right tempo :)
That's a good idea, Ed. I'm going to try practicing like that.

Author:  RonKiley [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:57 am ]
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That is one area I am terrible at. I have no great sense of time. I have never been able to sucessfully play with a metronome. Tapping my foot doesn't help because I tap to the music not play the music to the tap. With bluegrass you always had a big bass right behind you thumping in your back.

Author:  shadoes [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:49 am ]
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RonKiley wrote:
That is one area I am terrible at. I have no great sense of time. I have never been able to sucessfully play with a metronome. Tapping my foot doesn't help because I tap to the music not play the music to the tap. With bluegrass you always had a big bass right behind you thumping in your back.


When I record I typically will lay down a basic drum track to use as my click. For some reason many folks tend to find it easier to play to drums than to a click. A little less in human perhaps? If I am recording just whistle though I can normally get away with either tapping the beat or as I said before letting the metronome blink at me hehe. But if all else fails fire up my drum machine set the temp and play to the kick drum hehe.
I perfer to play though without when I can as when you play with the click or with a set drum beat there is sometimes not enough room to push and pull on the tempo. Tend to be much harder to build feeling than when you can play with the notes.


I also have to agree with ConnieS about ornaments and soulfulness. I would rather listen to a soulful player who has feeling in his music than one who has incredbily technical ornaments. With a lot of Irish traditional I hear I often have trouble picking out what the melody actualy is because of all the ornamentation in it.

Author:  Judy K [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:50 am ]
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I thought the whole idea of TPE was to play hymns with our own interpretations. When I'm singing the words in my head as I play, I may feel that one part of the song needs to be faster, with the refrain sung/played slower or with more expression .... or vice versa. It's probably a really good thing all my playing is done solo ... that is ... so low nobody hears it much .... :laughing:

Author:  Jim Wright [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:01 am ]
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Judy K wrote:
I thought the whole idea of TPE was to play hymns with our own interpretations. When I'm singing the words in my head as I play, I may feel that one part of the song needs to be faster, with the refrain sung/played slower or with more expression .... or vice versa. It's probably a really good thing all my playing is done solo ... that is ... so low nobody hears it much .... :laughing:

That is YOUR idea .. I want to hear YOUR interpretations! Bring um on .... make a joyful noise to the Lord ... that is a command .. way I read it!!!! Doesn't say anything about timing! :laughing:

Author:  Blackhawk [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:44 am ]
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ConnieS wrote:

Um...Blackhawk, you really are doing well.
Um...no, I'm not...but I don't want you to feel bad for coaching me. I'm okay with that (and grateful that you took the time to help out)...but a little shyer now than I was before about posting here. :)

Quote:
You have a remarkable command of tonal quality.
Sadly, Connie, I have no idea what that is. But whatever it is, I thank you for those kind words. :)


Quote:
So there. Keep playing with the tonal quality you've shown from the first song you put up.
Since I have no idea what it is, it should be a cinch, since I don't know how to play other than I do. :)

Quote:
The rest you're already getting better at.
Again, thanks...but I know I'm not. I'm just learning new songs/tunes and messing them up the same old way.

FWIW, my son is a music major at San Jose State, has played since he was 8 or 9, and is constantly making good natured comments like "Wow, good job, Dad! That was almost on beat!" :mrgreen:

Author:  shadoes [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:36 am ]
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Judy K wrote:
I thought the whole idea of TPE was to play hymns with our own interpretations. When I'm singing the words in my head as I play, I may feel that one part of the song needs to be faster, with the refrain sung/played slower or with more expression .... or vice versa. It's probably a really good thing all my playing is done solo ... that is ... so low nobody hears it much .... :laughing:


That is the whole idea. But before you can alter a song you have to be able to play it straight. Or at least know what it sounds like straight :) TPE Is about different interetations . Some here though feel they do not play well at all. I can honestly say nothing I have heard really speaks to that. Seems everytone plays quite well :)

This particular discussion though started with a question of some help to be able to play closer to temp(well as I remember without scrolling back to look) and thus the answers about using a metronome and such :)

Author:  KittyR [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  RonKiley

Here's Sweet Hour of Prayer from RonKiley.

http://praisewhistlers.org/exchange/son ... nKiley.mp3

He writes:
    I played it on an untweaked Generation C. It has some recording noise that I couldn't get rid of. It was worse in the MP3 than in the original.

    Ron

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