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 Post subject: Re: Banishing hobgoblins and blessing the waters!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:43 am 
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TheSpoonMan wrote:
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As far as exactly what I'm saying, I'm simply disagreeing with your statement that we receive Christ's power through the church.

Then through what else do we receive it?

My dear fellow, we receive Christ's power -- and his authority, and his grace, and his compassion, and his righteousness, and his wisdom, and his mission, and anything and everything else that he is and has, his very indentity which receive from him -- through our oneness with HIM, which he accomplishes in us when we enter the Kingdom of God, by HIM and through HIM.

Please understand I am not saying the church is useless. On the contrary, the Church is his body, his beloved. It's what he died for; it's what he lives for. It is the very thing into which all us lost individuals are brought when we become one with him. But our church system is not that church. Many people are members of both, to be sure; I just no longer confuse the two.

TheSpoonMan wrote:
But tell me- do you understand hwo God gave you that new life? Or how Jesus' blood saved you? Or how you an be called and yet choose? Or how the Trinity can be three and yet one? I don't think anyone understands this; it's revealed- glory be to God- but not understood. But it's beautiful not understanding, and forcing ourselves to be immersed in something bigger than ourselves.

Actually, yes, I do understand it. Yes, understand it. And understanding it does not diminish the mystery and wonder of it, as paradoxical as that may seem.

Spoonman, I will be the first to insist that there is no "seniority" in the family of God. But you might want to take into consideration the fact that I've been a professing Christian, and in "church," for more than twice as many years than you've been alive on this planet. I might just have a perspective of which you're not yet capable of even imagining. (And others here have lived through things I've not even thought of yet.)

As far as the rest of the tangents you bring up... you know, I really don't derive the same enjoyment you seem to get from the process of intellectual debate. It is empty and pointless in the end. It seems that you read every sentence with an eye for how you might dispute it rather than trying to understand what is actually being said.

You've given your perspective on how we receive Christ's power; I've given mine. That's the end of it as far as I'm concerned. Good day.

Kitty

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"I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things."
Isaiah 45:7 NIV


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 Post subject: Re: Banishing hobgoblins and blessing the waters!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:18 am 
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Spoonman .... thought I would stay out of this one ... way off of original topic... but am going to add my one cents worth (gonna be a short addition!).

We come from many different backgrounds and denominations and may not see "eye to eye" on everything but we agree on Jesus .... and that holds us together. It seems that whenever we get into one of these discussions ... we end up getting ourselves at cross purposes with each other and the only one that profits from them is satan. I personally don't think it is worth it ....

If you want to continue to discuss this topic... I will be happy to go off list and give it a shot... just pm me.

Jim

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 Post subject: Re: Banishing hobgoblins and blessing the waters!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:31 am 
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I try to stay out of debates of this type ... but gotta say Kitty falls in more with my thinking. There can be great fellowship within a church family, no doubt. But "The Church" is not a building or a set of rules or pomp and circumstances. It is the entire family of believers in Jesus Christ, created only by the grace of Him. You don't get this from a preacher, an icon, statues or a particular place of attendance. The American church system is full of 'man's laws', as well as "God's laws" ... God's laws are the only ones required of "The Church". My 2 cents .....


Still nifty pictures, A.


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 Post subject: Re: Banishing hobgoblins and blessing the waters!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:22 am 
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pretty good stuff about on this theme.........plenty of differing opinions...but I suppose I was comparing it all to some great extent to some of the more modern worship.....which is just so often 'individualized'...........where the songs are based on individual performances....many of the songs are not even in tune with scripture and the corporateness of the whole thing is lost........and are we only to apply the routines and behaviour of the early church to our modern day worship.with the wommen keeping quiet and sat separately....with an all or virtually all male leadership.thats what it would be like if we retained NT church ways............and don't knock some of these more ancient traditions which are far closer to NT days than some of our ideas. Remember what Jesus said when the Disciples said to Jesus...'theres a guy preaching over there and he aint one of us...shall we forbid him'? we all kmow Jesus response. Okay.some Orthodox worship is pretty fancy......but so much worship today is utterly banal,unscriptural,over individualized and lacking in corporateness. There.I felt like a rave and have now had one.love to you all Les.


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 Post subject: Re: Banishing hobgoblins and blessing the waters!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:56 am 
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Quote:
.many of the songs are not even in tune with scripture


That's true of songs generally, not just modern day tunes, most recently "We Three Kings". If they were 'in the Orient' and followed a star ' rising in the East' they'd be in the Pacific Ocean, not Bethlehem. If the star were over Bethlehem, it'd be west, not east and I'm also not buying they were from the Orient, but that's another thread :D .

That lack of attention to scripture is nothing new.

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 Post subject: Re: Banishing hobgoblins and blessing the waters!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:21 pm 
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hey jrc.never worked that one out for myself............must use it next time I'm casually chatting to our song leader chappie..........he'll be impressed :laughing:


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 Post subject: Re: Banishing hobgoblins and blessing the waters!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:30 pm 
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jrc wrote:
Quote:
.many of the songs are not even in tune with scripture


That's true of songs generally, not just modern day tunes, most recently "We Three Kings". If they were 'in the Orient' and followed a star ' rising in the East' they'd be in the Pacific Ocean, not Bethlehem. If the star were over Bethlehem, it'd be west, not east and I'm also not buying they were from the Orient, but that's another thread :D .

That lack of attention to scripture is nothing new.


The are records of magi in Athens and Rome so if they were there then they would have to travel eastwards to get to Bethlehem.


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 Post subject: Re: Banishing hobgoblins and blessing the waters!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:34 pm 
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Adrian wrote:
jrc wrote:
Quote:
.many of the songs are not even in tune with scripture


That's true of songs generally, not just modern day tunes, most recently "We Three Kings". If they were 'in the Orient' and followed a star ' rising in the East' they'd be in the Pacific Ocean, not Bethlehem. If the star were over Bethlehem, it'd be west, not east and I'm also not buying they were from the Orient, but that's another thread :D .

That lack of attention to scripture is nothing new.


The are records of magi in Athens and Rome so if they were there then they would have to travel eastwards to get to Bethlehem.


But then they would be RE-ORIENTED KINGS!!! =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Behold, as for the proud one, His soul is not right within him; But the righteous will live by his faith.
Habbakuk 2:4


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 Post subject: Re: Banishing hobgoblins and blessing the waters!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:49 pm 
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hee hee

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"I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things."
Isaiah 45:7 NIV


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 Post subject: Re: Banishing hobgoblins and blessing the waters!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:56 pm 
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jrc wrote:
Adrian wrote:
jrc wrote:
Quote:
.many of the songs are not even in tune with scripture


That's true of songs generally, not just modern day tunes, most recently "We Three Kings". If they were 'in the Orient' and followed a star ' rising in the East' they'd be in the Pacific Ocean, not Bethlehem. If the star were over Bethlehem, it'd be west, not east and I'm also not buying they were from the Orient, but that's another thread :D .

That lack of attention to scripture is nothing new.


The are records of magi in Athens and Rome so if they were there then they would have to travel eastwards to get to Bethlehem.


But then they would be RE-ORIENTED KINGS!!! =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:



:laughing: :thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: Banishing hobgoblins and blessing the waters!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:16 pm 
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Location: Chicago, IL
Quote:
My dear fellow, we receive Christ's power -- and his authority, and his grace, and his compassion, and his righteousness, and his wisdom, and his mission, and anything and everything else that he is and has, his very indentity which receive from him -- through our oneness with HIM, which he accomplishes in us when we enter the Kingdom of God, by HIM and through HIM.

Please understand I am not saying the church is useless. On the contrary, the Church is his body, his beloved. It's what he died for; it's what he lives for. It is the very thing into which all us lost individuals are brought when we become one with him. But our church system is not that church. Many people are members of both, to be sure; I just no longer confuse the two.


All agreed there. "receive isn't really the right word... will have to think. But... I dunno. Jesus' divinity wasn't in any way separated from His humanity... so I don't see any reason to make a distinguish between the Church and the church, so to speak. But nevermind :)

Quote:
Spoonman, I will be the first to insist that there is no "seniority" in the family of God. But you might want to take into consideration the fact that I've been a professing Christian, and in "church," for more than twice as many years than you've been alive on this planet. I might just have a perspective of which you're not yet capable of even imagining. (And others here have lived through things I've not even thought of yet.)

As far as the rest of the tangents you bring up... you know, I really don't derive the same enjoyment you seem to get from the process of intellectual debate. It is empty and pointless in the end. It seems that you read every sentence with an eye for how you might dispute it rather than trying to understand what is actually being said.

You've given your perspective on how we receive Christ's power; I've given mine. That's the end of it as far as I'm concerned. Good day.


Mkay, sounds good then. If it's no fun for you, I'll stop :) And please don't feel obligated to respond when I bring things up- I like to argue, it helps me think things through, but no pressure.

Tho as for emptiness... maybe it's immature of me, but I do love this kinda thing, and I learn a lot from it... I'll have you know you've changed my opinion very much, and I feel closer to God becuase of it, so I don't see it as empty. Either way tho, it was profitable, it's done, glory be to God :)

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 Post subject: Re: Banishing hobgoblins and blessing the waters!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:24 pm 
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[-o< AMEN! [-o<

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 Post subject: Re: Banishing hobgoblins and blessing the waters!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:55 am 
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BLESSINGS ALL.


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 Post subject: Re: Banishing hobgoblins and blessing the waters!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:03 am 
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Perhaps at the risk of being too late now that the dust has settled, I'd like to comment on the original post. :mrgreen:

From my understanding of the spiritual realm (and don't ask me to quote chapter and verse on this) this combining of church and state gives this act great authority. Where this blessing is done in Jesus name by someone with the authority the Bishop has then the waters will indeed be blessed. Any curse placed on the waters will be removed and any unrighteous beings will lose their right to be there.

I don't know about the pomp and circumstance but it makes for good fotos, right? :thumbsup:

Shalom,
Ian

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