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 Post subject: Ornamentation
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 1:04 am 
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Do you add ornaments to spice up your whistle and flute playing? If yes then what do you use?


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:08 am 
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I haven't figured out the right ornaments just yet -- kinda hard to get them to hang on the whistle right ....

Image

:mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:16 am 
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Couldn't you hook them in the tone holes?


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:54 am 
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Judy K wrote:
I haven't figured out the right ornaments just yet -- kinda hard to get them to hang on the whistle right ....

Image

:mrgreen:


Ahhh girl .. you got it wrong again ..... with that being a baratone dulcimer ornament! :-k :D

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 7:20 am 
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Jim Wright wrote:
Judy K wrote:
I haven't figured out the right ornaments just yet -- kinda hard to get them to hang on the whistle right ....

Image

:mrgreen:


Ahhh girl .. you got it wrong again ..... with that being a baratone dulcimer ornament! :-k :D


Jim, no one is going to notice as long as the dulcimer and whistle play in the same key.


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 8:08 am 
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Tommy wrote:
Jim Wright wrote:
Judy K wrote:
I haven't figured out the right ornaments just yet -- kinda hard to get them to hang on the whistle right ....

Image

:mrgreen:


Ahhh girl .. you got it wrong again ..... with that being a baratone dulcimer ornament! :-k :D


Jim, no one is going to notice as long as the dulcimer and whistle play in the same key.


It was early ... I didn't think about that ... but it would hang from the tunning knobs on the dulcimer ..... that I know ... but where .... I say ... where ... are you going to hang it on a whistle Tommy???? :-k

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 Post subject: Re: Ornamentation
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 8:28 am 
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Adrian wrote:
If yes then what do you use?

Instinct.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 8:54 am 
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i made my own guitar strap and it has a tassel at the neck. when beading became popular, i added some beads to the tassel. then i played the guitar and the beads made all kinds of noise. that was it for that still of ornamentation.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:04 am 
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In response to Adrian's initial question, yes, I do use ornaments. No idea what I use; I've classical training on other instruments, so probably use some from that background, plus some others I've heard which may have a name, and some that I've developed/made up over the years.


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:55 pm 
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Slurs, cuts of both types (next tone hole up, or left ring or left index finger), the occasional cran. Vibrato (technically, I think it's a tremolo) from wobbling a finger over the second hole down from what I'm playing, or sometimes from breath. And when? Like Kitty says, instinct dictates. If I made rules it would be no fun anymore and I'd quit playing.

What about you, Adrian?

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 7:47 pm 
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I play cuts and slides and half rolls and some grace notes with Irish music. I never did get the full roll--I always get five notes instead of three. I use strikes sometimes too.
I have found all these work great with worship music, using your instinct to know where and when. But half rolls just sound strange in a worship song!
Songs without ornaments are bread without butter.

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 5:02 am 
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When I first started whistling, I practiced cuts and strikes. But now, it's more just whatever comes to me. I find that without trying, I am learning new ornaments by just playing! :D

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 8:15 am 
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The reason I started this thread was so that we could learn from each other about what I regard as a very important part of whistle, recorder and flute music. I have a large collection of ethnic whistle and flute music CDs (about 100) from all around the world and EVERY style in my collection uses ornamentation. It is interesting that many styles of flute and whistle playing around the world share common musical ornaments.

Irish music - The normal tutor covers cuts, taps, long rolls, short rolls, slides, crans and vibrato. But there are other things that might be natural for a recorder or flute player which sound great on a whistle.

Musical vocabulary - Several here spoke directly or indirectly about using ornaments by 'instinct'. That is our goal and it is greatly helped by increasing our musical 'vocabulary'. Most of us play worship music in church and there is room for a lot more than cuts and rolls. Of course knowing lots of musical embellishments doesn't mean we need to ruin a tune with to many (or any) sometimes, but we all know that.

Easier - Another reason for learning some additional ornaments is that some are much easier to learn and use than some of the traditional Irish ones. This is NOT to say that we should stop trying to perfect our rolls and crans etc. However, it does mean that you can teach a student to play with some nice sounding ornaments in a very quick time.

I am NOT an expert but I'd like to share some of the thinks I have learnt and hope everyone else will do the same.

In addition to the normal Irish ornamentation that we all know the following will often be heard in whistle and flute music and there maybe some nifty gems to add to your worship music.

Single grace notes
Double grace notes
Triple grace notes
Acciacciatura (this is one way a grace note is played)
Appogiaturas (this is another way a grace note is played)
Double cuts
Turns
Upper turns
Lower turns
Upper mordants
Lower mordants
Runs
Single trills
Long trills
Double tonging
Triple tonguing
A much wider articulation than just 't' and 'd'

BEAR WITH ME! I will explain more in another post.


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 8:21 am 
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Turns

This ornament is good news if you have given up trying to learn a long roll. It is thought that the roll almost certainly came from the turn. There are many kinds of turn. Grab a whistle so you can hear what it sounds like. [Note: I will refer to F# as F so just play the whistle as normal with no half-holing]


1) This turn is made of five notes played very quickly. Main note, note above, main note, note below, main note.

A turn on G is GAGFG Play them very quickly. You will realise that they are similar to rolls but a million times easier to learn (like it takes 5 minutes to learn).



2) Upper turn - this is a very very effective ornament and is also very easy to learn. Once you have learnt it you will recognise it in LOTS of music. This ornament is used when you want to go from one note to the note immediately below. It is a little run of four notes: main note, note above, main note, note below.

An upper turn from G to F goes GAGF. Try it now. Pretty nifty? Try it in Amazing Grace (key of G) in the first line going from the words 'how' to 'sweet'. The word 'how' would normally be 'A' and 'sweet' would be 'G' BUT now try the cluster of ABAG. Hope you understood this expaination as it is a very common and useful ornament.

That's enough for now. Ask questions, give comments or better instructions as you feel fit. I'll add more later.


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:43 pm 
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Thanks, Adrian! This is good stuff, I'll have to try it.

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:54 pm 
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I use the Irish whistle techniques that I learned from the L. E. McCoullough tutor, along with a few piping techniques, ie, what I have picked up from other whistlers/pipers.

Sometimes I use tonguing as well.

I found the long roll very easy to do, once I heard it and found out that the cut/pat notes could vary according to what fingers you have on the whistle/chanter. The short roll was much harder to learn. It's all in the rhythm.

I could never get the hang of turns or mordents or the other classical techniques as I don't hear them in the music I mostly listen to.


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 8:59 pm 
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thanks adrian. this kind of stuff makes my head go all whoozy but i did mark the page where some of these techniques are explained. when i have time and energy and the need, i'll study the techniques. i like using trills and i liked using them on a keyboard too.

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 9:36 pm 
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I think I may use the "upper turn" in my playing, but not consciously. It "just happens" sometimes. I think I also use something similar, but the second note is two notes above the "base" note.

Adrian, perhaps you could post some sound clips of your ornaments.

I am an ear learner (as I am sure many others are as well) rather than a sight reader of dots.

I know it would really help me understand your ornaments.


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 3:19 am 
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Interesting thread, Adrian, thanks for starting it.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 1:43 pm 
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Runs

Another common and useful ornament and very easy to play. It is simply a run of notes which takes you from one note to the next. The run follows the notes of the scale and is typically three or four but can be any number. For example: if in your tune you need to go from G down to D, and you think this is a good place in the tune to put an ornament, simply run smoothly and quickly down the scale GFED. Easy peasy but very effective in the right place.

It is also a nice alternative to a cran on D in some places. Let's say you are playing a tune starting on D and you would like to ornament the first note then you have a number of options to choose from. A cran is an obvious choice but a run from G to D (as above) works very well. In a tune example we can use Amazing Grace in the key of G again. It starts DGG (as we all know) but try putting a quick run in of GFED and starting the hymn on the D.

The run works both going down and up the scale. In some jazzier tunes the run can follow the chromatic scale usually for just a few notes (that's for Kristos and Connie).


Last edited by Adrian on Mon May 28, 2007 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 1:53 pm 
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The lower turn

This is the exact opposite of the upper turn. It is an ornament that you can use when the tune goes from one note to the note immediately above. It is made up of four notes: starting note > note below > starting note > note above e.g. a lower turn from G to A would go GF#GA. It is used a lot less than the upper turn but it is worth knowing.


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 1:53 pm 
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Fancypiper
It would be easy for me to record some examples but where would I post them? I am the most technically challenged out of the whole happy family here.


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 1:56 pm 
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:D Thanks for the info!

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 2:28 pm 
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Adrian wrote:
Fancypiper
It would be easy for me to record some examples but where would I post them? I am the most technically challenged out of the whole happy family here.


See these instructions or these.


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 2:44 pm 
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listen to this:

easy peasy.

i sound so british

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