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 Post subject: I Can't Hear Myself!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:31 pm
Posts: 6
Hello,

I'm new to the list and so happy to find such a wonderful group of whistlers!

I just started playing my pennywhistles with the worship team in church. I'm usually standing in the rhythm section (I also play percussion) and with drums, piano, synth, bass and drums all playing I can't hear myself! I am miked so the congregation can hear me.

I'm wondering if anyone has come up with a way to put a small mic on the pennywhistle and have it go into a beltpack with earphones.

Has anyone had this problem and successfully solved it?

Thanks!

-Martinique


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Hear Myself!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:57 am 
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H i Martinique, and welcome to PWA!!! I'm sorry I can't answer you question, but there's some folks here I'm sure will be able to. In the mean time, why don't you stop by the "Fellowship" section and introduce yourself?!


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Hear Myself!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:39 pm 
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Location: Lansing, MI
I've used a personal monitor amplifier in one setting where most other instruments are amplifier-based; the microphone feeds into the small amplifier, with a cable out to the PA system, a feed in from the PA system for an overall monitor, and headphones attached. There are separate volume controls for the monitor mix and for your individual microphone. (This is helpful, as some instruments I play are louder than others.)

This http://www.zzounds.com/item--RLLPM50S is the device I've used; I have had no dealings with the vendor, so cannot comment on them.

I will note that the headphones leave me feeling somewhat isolated, but one can probably become accustomed to them.

Welcome to the community!


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Hear Myself!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:52 pm 
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Location: Richmond, VA
Be careful micing a whistle and blowing it back into your ears through headphones - that could be damaging to your ears is not done very carefully, I would think.

How about standing somewhere else - might be hard to work out given the situation. Volume on a platform really shouldn't be so loud you can hear a whistle - what kind of whistle are you playing?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Hear Myself!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:30 pm 
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Location: Baltimore, MD USA!
Hi More Pennies and Welcome!
I often hang back with the rhythm section and encounter the same problem. If it's not practical to move for whistle playing, one thing I've resorted to in this setting is a louder whistle! I'm only teasing, of course, although the Susato and Burkes for example really do seem to have loads of volume. Any other monitors around that might possibly help hear yourself "in the mix" ? Personally don't like the idea of headphones in this situation, but maybe if it's done the right way it could work. I might also suggest to give it a bit of time and see if your ear doesn't help you hear what you need, over time.
Hope one of us give a suggestion that works for you!
Tom

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Hear Myself!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:15 am 
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This may not be appropriate in your church, Martinique, but in Irish sessions whistlers will frequently wear wide brimmed hats to reflect the sound back down into their ears. It'd be okay in a somewhat informal church like mine, but not everyone's going to like this idea. Ah well. :)

And welcome!!

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Hear Myself!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:33 am 
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More Pennies Please wrote:
I am miked so the congregation can hear me.

Seems to me your sound team should be able to help you out. Surely there's a way to add enough of your mic to the rhythm section monitor that you can hear what you're doing.

Kitty

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I, the LORD, do all these things."
Isaiah 45:7 NIV


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Hear Myself!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:43 pm
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Location: Sparta. NC USA
Try playing the whistle from the side of your mouth on your dominant ear side, the other ear positioned so as to minimize the sound of the other stuff.

The large brimmed hat works as well, but our church recommends that men be uncovered and the ladies wear a prayer covering in church.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Hear Myself!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:31 am 
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Hi, More Pennies. :wave: Welcome to OUR crazy mix. I think getting the sound team to help you is your best option. If that's not possible, the hat or the tilted whistle would probably help some, although you don't want to lose hearing faster on one side, which is actually an issue.

I also have a little recorder called a Zoom H2. It doubles as a personal monitor. It has a mike stand adapter so you can set it on a mike stand close to what you want to hear, then feed it to headphones or earbuds. I use small back-of-neck headphones, one side on and one side dangling around my cheekbone, so I can hear myself AND the room.

A Zoom will set you back a couple hundred, though. Monitor is not its primary purpose.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Hear Myself!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:31 pm
Posts: 6
Thanks for the ideas!

Alas, wide brimmed hats are not on the dress code.

Puting the penny whistle through the rhythm section monitors isn't an option. I'm in charge of the sound team, so I have been digging through the drawers looking for unused equipment that might be helpful. I have a mic splitter box that I can use to send signal to the system and to a big (57 pounds of power!) Peavy KBA100 amp that I own, but volume adjustment can be tough.

The Rolls headphone amp has crossed my mind. I'm glad to hear it's a good piece of equipment.

I have a friend who just bought a Zoom H2. I was wondering if it could be used as you described, Connie.

I think I'll post this on a the "Church Soundcheck" e-mail list and see if they come up with any more good ideas. I'll keep ya'll posted!

-Martinique


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Hear Myself!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:01 pm 
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More Pennies Please wrote:
I'll keep ya'll posted!

-Martinique

Please do, Martinique! We'll be interested in how this turns out.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Hear Myself!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:37 am 
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More Pennies Please wrote:
Puting the penny whistle through the rhythm section monitors isn't an option.

From one sound geek to another... why not?

More Pennies Please wrote:
I have a mic splitter box that I can use

You could split off to a personal monitor:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--GXYMICROSPOTPW

Image

That's $200 brand new but I bet you could find a used powered monitor that would work.

That might seem like a big expense for a penny whistle, but it would be very difficult to improvise and flow without being able to hear what you're doing.

I'd still like to know why you can't have whistle in your monitor in the first place.

Kitty

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"I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things."
Isaiah 45:7 NIV


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Hear Myself!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:58 am 
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Quote:
KittyR wrote:
Puting the penny whistle through the rhythm section monitors isn't an option.
From one sound geek to another... why not?


Well, lots of reasons. (Didn't want to bore everyone with the details earlier.) First off, there's no monitor near me, and although I do have an extra hotspot on hand right now, I don't want to add yet another monitor.

We have 4 monitor mixes: A & B are on the platform, 2 JBL floor slants each, they serve the 6-7 vocalists that lead worship in the AM. They like it loud. C has 2 hotspots for the drummer and the conga player. D is for the pianist- the Fine Arts Pastor. As I often say, "Mains? Who needs mains?"

If I added the extra hotspot to the C's and ran my whistles through it, I know the drummer would be unhappy. The sound guy would really have to crank the whistle volume so I could hear it over the vocals and piano already coming through the C. Also, the monitor sends are pre-fade, so if my levels were set for the high D, and then I switched to the low D, I still wouldn't hear myself.

I don't want the Fine Arts Pastor to hear me. At least not yet. During a preservice rehearsal, she will repeatedly stop to tell the vocalists when they're not on pitch. If I'm not on pitch (and I can hear myself) I know I'm not on pitch and can fix it. I wouldn't want the FA Pastor to stop everything because I'm off pitch.

Since I am a sound person myself, I sympathize with the person at the board, and I don't want to add one more voice saying, "Can I have more of me in the monitor?" One thing people appreciate about me is that I try to be low maintenance.

Later today I plan on trying out a wireless lapel mic on the low and high D Susatos. I don't use the thumb rests, so I'll move them to just below the... umm, I think someone called it the "window"... and clip the mic there. (Does the "window" have a real techincal name?)

That will at least tell me if I'm on the right track with attaching a mic to the whistle.

That personal monitor does look pretty cool...

Thanks and God bless!

-Martinique


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Hear Myself!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:25 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:43 pm
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Location: Sparta. NC USA
I wonder if this Wireless Headset Microphone might do the trick for you.

The headset doesn't have earphones on it, it is just another mic that you can use with the transmitter.

In order to hear yourself, I think that you would need an separate input on the sound system for the receiver and a separate output to feed a set of earphones for you.


Last edited by fancypiper [in Heaven] on Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Hear Myself!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:30 am 
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Forgive me if I'm out of line, but it seems to me if you can't hear an ambient whistle the entire mix is way out of hand. Unless you're in a coliseum, you have have to overblowing the mains, which will kill the FOH mix. I'm not talking about you as a whistler, but more on the team as a whole.

Just an opinion - maybe the issue is the team being too loud, rather than you not being loud enough?

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Behold, as for the proud one, His soul is not right within him; But the righteous will live by his faith.
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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Hear Myself!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:53 am 
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More Pennies Please wrote:
As I often say, "Mains? Who needs mains?"

Sheesh, no kidding!

Couldn't you set the monitor send for the whistle channel to post-fade and then give it a shot in monitor C for a few weeks?

More Pennies Please wrote:
That personal monitor does look pretty cool...

Hey, the cooler it looks, the better it works! Everyone knows that, right? 8)

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"I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things."
Isaiah 45:7 NIV


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